We haven't talked about it—there's so much to talk about, isn't there?—but Brando's Kurtz is certainly not physically the Kurtz of Conrad. But maybe he works. So...
1. Did you find Brando's Kurtz true to the Kurtz of the novella—extra weight and all? In fact, could you make an argument that Brando's heft is as legitimate a physical picture of Kurtz as is the emaciated form of the novella's Kurtz?
2. What do you think of The Intended? Why is she here, do you think? And how does she compareo or contrast to The Woman back in Africa?
3. We have to ask: "The horror! The horror!" In this work, what is it? Go ahead and quote in your response—something other than, of course, "The horror! The horror!"
4. Marlow: he lies to The Intended. Why? And what does this make you think of Marlow—what does this say to you about our...hero? Whatever the heck he is in the story.
5. The last paragraph of the book. For you, how does it conclude the story? To what effect—to what purpose—does it end the book? Quote from that paragraph in your response.
We made it down the river and back. Whew! See you all tomorrow.
1) I think Brando's Kurtz is very good. I don't think the weight really matters, other than for the death imagery. I think the main thing about Kurtz is he needs to be big, larger than life, and striking. I think Brando pulls this off.
ReplyDelete2) I think the Intended is somewhat stupid and self-absorbed. She seems to represent the idea of the infallible Europeans, who always do good and are the best they can be. She believes Kurtz to be some sort of "emissary of light" and could never imagine him as the murderer he was. The Woman in Africa seems independent, strong, and mistrustful of the world around her. The Intended comes across as the opposite, completely dependent, weak, and overly trusting and somewhat naive.
3) I think the horror could be many things. It could be Kurtz reflecting on his life and the atrocities he committed. I think it could also be him looking at the terrible ways of Europeans and their societies, especially in their exploitative and self-aggrandizing ways. I think it could also be a general anger at Kurtz realising he was never going to meet with kings and be the great and widely known man he seemed to want to be. The latter seems to be supported by Marlow's description at the door of the Intended's house, where he says "...--stare with that wide and immense stare embracing, condemning, loathing all the universe." However, I feel like none of these options are correct. The words see empty, perhaps "hollow", as T S Eliot would say. The words could be about any number of things, but nothing that seems right.
4) I think he lies because she wouldn't have understood. I think he lies because he feels pity for her. I think he lies because as much as he realizes the false light of European society she represents is something he should hate, he can't taint it. He still believes in it in some way, or at least can't let it go. It makes Marlow hypocritical, but we already knew that. I think I understand what he does. It feels human, it feels like something another person might do. I think it brings up the white lie we've talked about in class. In all honesty I'm not sure what I think of Marlow. I don't actively like or dislike him. I'm not sure what to think.
5) I think it concludes it well. For me, the book seems to be a lot about how people see the faults and atrocities of civilization, society, and humanity, but can not give up the false light, their own faith, in civilization and humanity. We can not go fully into the heart of darkness, abandoning society for the wild, the savage, and the uncivilized. I think this last sentence shows that our unnamed narrator can now see, possibly could always see, this dark truth about civilization, but he nor any of the people on the boat mention anything about the story. They, or at least the narrator, see the darkness, but will not accept the truth. "The offing was barred by a black bank of clouds, and the tranquil waterway leading to the uttermost ends of the earth flowed sombre under an overcast sky – seemed to lead into the heart of an immense darkness."
1. For me, the thinness of Kurtz in the novella shows his fragility and vulnerability. I think in Apocalypse Now, this fragility is conveyed in Kurtz’ wish for Willard to kill him. Therefore, I do not think it would be necessary for movie Kurtz to be thin.
ReplyDelete2. I think the Intended serves several purposes. For one, she provides a contrast to the Woman. She also functions as another example of who Kurtz’ followers are. Additionally, she provides an opportunity for Marlow to do what he hates the most: lie. Marlow does say that she is not girlish and has some sense of maturity. However, she is still easily deceived by Marlow’s lie and believes that Kurtz needs her, when we know he does not. The Woman, on the other hand, truly seems like an equal of Kurtz.
3. I think “The Horror” Kurtz is talking about is the true chaotic nature of the world. In the paragraph that precedes this, Marlow describes what he sees in Kurtz’ expression: “I saw on that ivory face the expression of sombre pride, of ruthless power, of craven terror—of intense and hopeless despair” (69). Kurtz feels all these emotions, but he cannot make sense of them. He is left without a clear understanding of life and with a fear of this “darkness” that he tried so hard to embrace and understand.
4. I think Marlow lies because he cannot bring himself to make this woman feel more pain than she already feels. He does not think that she could handle it, and he is probably right. She definitely doesn’t want to hear it. Marlow tells us that he absolutely hates lies, yet he lies. I think this shows us one of Marlow’s flaws: he tries to make absolute statements that do not account for events like these, where a lie might be the least painful option.
5. I think the ending fits the tone of the novella. The last sentence, “The offing was barred by a black bank of clouds, and the tranquil waterway leading to the uttermost ends of the earth flowed sombre under an overcast sky—seemed to lead into the heart of an immense darkness” (77), continues to use the same dark, profound, and descriptive language used throughout the novella. It also, since this story takes place in London, shows that this primal “darkness” is not that far removed from the “refined civilization” that they are in.
1) Marlon Brando may not fit the description of Kurtz in "Heart of Darkness," but he certainly fills the role. He is solemn, and his weight doesn't seem to matter to me. He seems older than I envisioned Kurtz in the novella, but we don't really know his age.
ReplyDelete2) The Intended takes us back to Marlow's initial idea of women as having their own separate world. The Woman fits into his masculine world much more, being bold and perceived as dangerous by the Russian. The Intended, however, still views Kurtz idealistically, and doesn't see the reality of what he became.
3) Marlow says "I understand better the meaning of his stare that could not see the flame of the candle but was wide enough to embrace the whole universe, piercing enough to penetrate all the hearts that beat in the darkness." Kurtz was speaking not just of civilization, the flame, or the "savages." He thought clearly on all he had seen, and realized the horror of it. Marlow also speaks of the combination of desire and revulsion in that gaze. This is the fascination with the abomination. Kurtz, despite seeing the world as horrifying, was still attracted to it, even as he died.
4) Marlow views this as a white lie. He sees the Intended as part of this separate "women's world" and does not think it necessary to burden her with reality. He knows she will be happier believing Kurtz remained a sensitive poet to the end.
5) Marlow revealed to the passengers on the boat, including our unnamed narrator, that though they like to think they're civilized, the world is still a pretty nasty place, full of horror. This is shown in the last line, "The offing was barred by a black bank of clouds, and the tranquil waterway leading to the uttermost ends of the earth flowed somber under an overcast sky—seemed to lead into the heart of an immense darkness." The Thames, the same river that in the beginning of the book was described as taking light out to the distant reaches of the world, is covered by dark clouds. It's not just leading out into the world, it leads to the heart of darkness. Marlow has changed the mind of our narrator.
1. I thought Brando did a very good job of portraying Kurtz. To me, it was as close as you could get to Kurtz set during the Vietnam War. I think that Brando’s heaviness contributes to the heaviness of his character in the movie. His heaviness shows how un-simple and thin his character is, and how his character is full of stuff, whether it be good stuff or bad stuff. On the other hand, I think an ill, emaciated Kurtz describes the book Kurtz very well too. Through all the praise we hear about Kurtz, we still are able to see that Kurtz remains fallible and just as susceptible to sickness as the rest of us, making him just like us. (A scary thought, but a point I think Conrad tries to make)
ReplyDelete2. I think the fact that Conrad has brought up only two women in the story, The Intended and The Woman, is very interesting. Clearly, it was not unintentional. They seem to be somewhat opposite from each other. The Woman is powerful, mysterious, and has somewhat of a strong will. Whereas The Intended is portrayed as weak, shallow, and superficial. She seems a bit oblivious to Kurtz’s state. It kind of can translate to the bigger picture of Europeans not truly knowing what goes on in the lands they colonize and being oblivious as to what is going on and shallow in their wealth and ignorance.
3. I think “the horror” speaks of all the horrible things Kurtz has seen and done, and perhaps his fascination with the abomination. It’s sort of like what we were discussing in class today about Kurtz being a sensitive, thoughtful artist yet also a power-hungry murderer. I think he has trouble accepting these two vastly different parts of himself and how they can coexist. Perhaps inside he’s fighting between these two. Though of course he realizes this on somewhat of a subconscious level.
4. I think Marlow lies because he feels like it is just too vast and difficult to explain. It goes back to what we were saying about how none of us can truly understand what it is like to go through something we never have before because we each have a unique experience. Marlow lies because it is easier, because it requires less effort and hassle. The Intended will remain ignorant, but at least Marlow doesn’t have to go through the pain and effort of telling the truth. I think it’s realistic and I feel like I’ve been in this situation many times.
5. I think the ending fits because though there is some change and transformation, there’s still not anything quite so explicit or overt said. Which fits the story so far. We end where we start out, the Thames. “The offing was barred by a black bank of clouds, and the tranquil waterway leading to the uttermost ends of the earth flowed somber under an overcast sky-seemed to lead into the heart of an immense darkness.” I think through this line Marlow shows that it’s not just the Congo River that leads to the heart of darkness, it’s the Thames too. Europeans also commit horrible crimes and act, as they say, “savage.”
1) Both the emaciated and portly Kurtz's certainly have a powerful effect. I would argue, however, that while Conrad's bone-thin Kurtz may indeed be essentially hollow, Brando's character has a bit more to him (be it restraint or cheesecake). I actually think Kurtz's character is better represented by a military man than an man of the company. For me, ivory hunter Kurtz's ambiguous morality is overshadowed by his greed. The goals of a military man and a military conflict fit the nuances of the character more, and give the character more depth... or heft, I suppose.
ReplyDelete2) Clearly from Marlow's disabused, disillusioned perspective, the 'intended' is entirely ridiculous. She possesses none of the stately confidence of the Woman in Africa. However, Conrad seems to imply that unlike Marlow or the Woman in Africa, Kurtz's 'intended' will live an un addled life. Of course Kurtz's last word were her name; because that's the way her life works and always will. Marlow's lie implies that her life is, in addition to comfortable, a lie.
3) Considering Kurtz's words, "I am here lying in the dark waiting for death," the words spoken directly before the famous talk of 'horror', I think that Kurtz is horrified by that fact that after everything, he is still like everyone else -- simply waiting to die. Kurtz's god-complex and his 'fascination with the abomination' suggest that he really was trying to upset the order of things. Perhaps in all his poetry and art, he was trying to find something more meaningful to world. On his deathbed, however, he, like everyone else, is faced with the fact that we all live and progress towards only one thing: death.
4) Marlow, who has clearly established that he hates lies, seems to be giving up with this final act of adhering to the society in which he was raised. He allows Kurtz's Intended to go on thinking the world is how she's always known it to be. The earnestness, then, of the story he tells the men on the boat, and the way he implicates them in the evils of the world, implies that these lies don't last Marlow long.
5) I think it's interesting that the narrator notes, "Marlow sat apart, indistinct and silent, in the pose of a meditating buddha." Unlike the Ancient Mariner's tale, Morlow's story has not put him in the same 'boat', so to speak, as the rest of his companions. He's still separate. It's interesting also that Conrad evokes an image from a non-western religion. I like this ending because it gives me the sense that Marlow has overcome some of the horrors he's seen and perhaps found some peace.
1. I feel as though the point of mentioning Kurtz’s physical attributes is simply to prove that he’s not what we would expect him to be, for a man who’s running the show. In the novella, Kurtz wields a lot of power and so we’d expect him to be in tip-top shape, which he is not. In the movie Brando seems big and scary, but we’d almost expect him to be a bit leaner and more muscular. I think the point is the same even though the physical characteristics of Kurtz in the novella and movie fall at opposite sides of the scale.
ReplyDelete2. I think The Intended is the perfect personification of every negative stereotype I have about women in the Victorian era. While The Woman in Africa is alive and awake and flowing, The Intended is one of the most confined literary characters I’ve ever met. You can imagine her almost hobbling into the room in her mourning clothing, twisted up in corsets and bustles. Quite frankly, The Intended annoys me by having to prove that she knows Kurtz the best and refusing to consider the possibility that there was more than one side to Kurtz. The Woman, on the other hand, seems to have fallen in love with Kurtz a la carte—she does understand that there’s poetry and murder happening in a day with Kurtz.
3. The horror for Kurtz, in my opinion, is the fact that Kurtz will die and after his work nothing will be left. He’s adamant about his legacy: “he desired to have kings meet him at railway stations” (68) Marlow says—speaking of a dying man who expects kings to turn out to see him, “Oh, but I will wring your heart yet!” (68) Kurtz says to Marlow—determined to leave a mark on Marlow, and finally, on 68, Kurtz practices for the speech he wants to give when it comes time for his final remarks. Kurtz has been told by everyone around him that he’s an exceptional individual and I can’t help but think that he’s really begun to think that himself. The man has an entirely inflated sense of self but I think it’s come to the point where he must face reality and realize that he really left no mark on the world—which is the most frightening thought for someone like him.
4. The question is if Marlow had been honest with The Intended would she have changed as a person? If she realized that she wasn’t the last words out of Kurtz’s sickly mouth, would she have realized that she wasn’t as important to him as she thought? Would that have changed the way she viewed herself? Would it have made her less self-important? I don’t have a problem with Marlow’s lie because it seems like The Intended is too naïve to understand the reality of Kurtz and never will. At the same time, I’d like for her to grow up and this might be the way to do it. I’m undecided as to whether or not this was the right move.
5. I think the ending is foreshadowing for the journey of these men. Marlow’s seem some truly opinion, if not life, changing stuff and he wants to share it with these men. I don’t know if they’ll take his story to heart, but the last bit is that “[the waterway] seemed to lead into the heart of an immense darkness” (77). I have a suspicion that the story might repeat itself, in some form, for the members of the company, and they’ll have to have that experience before they can really understand what Marlow’s talking about. Lucky for them, based on the last line, it sounds like they’re headed there.
1. I really liked the way that Brando portrayed Kurtz's character. I definitely didn't see him being as sickly and feeble as he is described as being in the book, and I think that the actor being emaciated would have helped show truly how sick Kurtz was at this point in his life. However, Brando being large helped establish the point of Kurtz large size– it contrasts to his name meaning "small" in German and shows how he appears powerful inherently because of his physical appearance. Overall, however, Brando's acting completely and accurately illustrated Kurtz, with the weight.
ReplyDelete2. The Intended seems to be somewhat ignorant. She praises Kurtz and is excessively fond of him, not recognizing his prominent problematic behavior, for example raiding for ivory and violently murdering "rebels" and proceeding to put their heads on poles as decoration. She appears to have expected Kurtz's last words to be her name, which seems egotistical. This contrasts with the African woman who represents the strong wilderness and is able to follow Kurtz while having a sense of herself. The Intended is only introduced for a small portion of the story but I reached the conclusion that she doesn't have the same sense of independence as the African woman does. The African woman is described as bold enough to argue with Kurtz, when this Intended woman seems completely broken forever by his death, making her a weaker character than the African woman.
3. As in Apocalypse Now, "the horror" could be many things. Similar to in the film, I think it's how he feels about his collective recent experiences, and his opinion of the world and the confusion of colonialism. Part of "The horror" he refers to could even include the "unspeakable rites" (50). His "unsound methods" (62) are horrible to the company and to himself, evidently. I think he connects this horror to his behavior leading up to his death, and it adds to why he awaits his death.
4. I don't think he necessarily is a worse person for lying to her in this scene. She is self–absorbed and also worships Kurtz dutifully, and viewed him as almost a divine figure. I think learning that his last words were, in truth, "The horror!" would have startled her but not in a productive way. It didn't seem that her character could grow or develop from this disturbing knowledge, and she wouldn't have understood it. I think he wants to keep her thinking highly of him, and feeds her ego in the process. It would have upset her too much to know the truth, and it was easier for him to let her be happy with a fond last word to hold on to him with. I think it just shows him avoiding a stressful explanation and respecting her ego and stiff, positive views of Kurtz.
5. The beginning of the closing paragraph is a good closing to the story, because Marlow's story of his adventure with Kurtz is over and everyone listening has a short time to process what they've just heard: "Nobody moved for a time" (77). I imagined that Conrad had them immobile because they were attempting to make sense of this overwhelming story. This reflective silence is broken by the manager, and then the narrator remarks that the sky "seemed to lead into the heart of an immense darkness" (77). To me, he was implying that after hearing this story his views of the world had changed forever, as Marlow's had fate being introduced to Kurtz. Now that the narrator has heard this story, he can't un–hear it. The immense heart of darkness he feels he is entering shows his mindset now altered. It has a certain heaviness that I liked.
Marlon Brando's Kurtz, although. It emaciated, managed to still convey his fragility and weakness. I think Coppola choosing Brando for this role knowing full well that the Kurtz in the book was emaciated and thin was another stroke of genius. Having Kurtz not being played by a physically fragile man but a mentally fragile one gives more depth to the movie, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteThe Intended is definitely more dependent and weaker than the Woman in Africa, I think. I think she's here to represent society that doesn't know/subconsciously doesn't want to know the truth/can't handle the truth. Marlow has experienced and seen things he can't even imagine telling the Intended about, and can't bring himself to tell her the truth about Kurtz's last words either because he knows that she wouldn't be able to handle it.
I think the horror is the novel is everything, essentially. It's Kurtz struggling with himself and what he's done, what he's seen, the darkness in the heart of man, the darkness in the world, everything he's discovered while in Africa. Marlow says "I saw on that ivory face the expression of somber pride, of ruthless power, of craven terror— of an intense and hopeless despair." which, I think, are some of the horrors Kurtz was referring to. Pride, power, and terror can lead to nothing more than hopeless despair, nothing more than a heart of darkness.
It makes me think that although Marlow has seen and been through a lot during his time in Africa, he still has the heart not to tell the Intended the truth about Marlow's words. Ignorance really is bliss in this case, because I don't think the Intended would have been able to handle the truth from the way she broke down in front of Marlow. Marlow thinks that it's better for her to live her life thinking that his last thought was her, and since she hasn't experienced the things Marlow and Kurtz have, I think that's the best option.
The story concludes with an image of the river "leading to the uttermost ends of the earth" and "flowing somber under an overcast sky...leading into the heart of an immense darkness." which is an interesting image to end with (tying the title into the story again) but even though there's really nothing else to say, I feel like it ended on a cliffhanger. The story is over and yet..it doesn't feel like it is. It might be the way Conrad sorted about the river flowing into the immense darkness that makes it sound like the river can go on forever, and the story too. But maybe I'm weird and it's just me.
1. Brando's Kurtz was true to the Kurtz of Heart of Darkness through his grandiosity, but I also thought that he was less erratic and threatening. In his poetry readings, I think he expressed Kurtz well. He was definitely commanding of attention, like Conrad's Kurtz. I think that Coppola added the distinction between the two sides of Kurtz by juxtaposing the severed heads and his treatment of Willard with his fatherly behavior towards the children. I couldn't see Conrad's Kurtz hanging out with little kids. Conrad's Kurtz felt more mentally fractured than Coppola's Kurtz, possibly because of Brando's monologue about the inoculated children. The monologue offers a rationale for Kurtz's behavior, whereas Conrad's Kurtz seems much more absurd. He doesn't try to explain his behavior because I think in his mind he is godlike. Coppola's Kurtz still perceives himself as right, but I get the feeling that he is more in touch with reality than the Kurtz of the novella.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the extra weight is a big problem. Both being underweight and being overweight indicate a tendency to extremes. I feel like the character of Kurtz is more suited to being thin because he seems like the type that would "forget to eat." However, if the surrounding tribes view him as a god, one would expect him to be well fed. I think the extra weight can represent Kurtz's overindulgence in his egotistical tendencies.
2. I think Conrad put her into the story to represent Marlow's struggle with the Western belief in superiority over "natives" and nature, and therefore to exemplify this struggle as a fault in Western society/"civilization." Marlow says that that the Europeans he meets upon his return are "full of stupid importance" (71). These people feel that they are important, which contrasts directly with Marlow's experiences in the jungle as he has come face-to-face with the reality of human absurdity. The Intended is the epitome of the "civilized woman" with her conservative Victorian clothing and her elaborate mourning process. She represents the majority of "civilized Westerners" during the Victorian era. She demonstrates the "emissary of light" attitude to colonialism, like Marlow's aunt. She also demonstrates an increased sense of self-importance, as she insists that she loved Kurtz like no one else and expects his last word to be her name. She is definitely a product of society. I find her to be annoying but I'm also a little sorry for her. She has been lied to so much that she is unable to see the truth.
She is the opposite of the woman in Africa in pretty much every possible way. The Woman dresses in revealing clothing, whereas the Intended dresses in conservative clothes. The Woman represents the wilderness and the Intended represents civilization. I think it's interesting that Kurtz is somehow involved with both of them because he is a man of civilization and the jungle.
Cont.
ReplyDelete3. I think that Kurtz's last words express his realization of his absurdity. When he dies, pretty much everything that he struggled for will be taken away from him. He probably doesn't foresee a legacy for himself. He doesn't achieve "wealth and fame" (68) like he wants to. The majority of Europeans don't know his name, and the closest he gets to riches was the ivory stockpile that he collects but doesn't sell. He struggles in vain against nature: "'Oh, but I will wring your heart yet!' he cried at the invisible wilderness."
In Apocalypse Now, Kurtz's last words are transcendent. He uses them to make a commentary on war and its effects on people--they are a condemnation. Here, Kurtz's words are selfish. Yes, he comments on the absurdity of human life, but he does so from the position of a frail human being who is afraid of death.
4. Telling her the truth wouldn't have gotten either of them anywhere. She probably wouldn't have believed (or understood) him. It would have spoiled her conception of Kurtz as a powerful, intellectual man to learn that his last words were a selfish and fearful expression of human frailty. I don't think less of Marlow for it. Telling the truth wouldn't have made sense. I think that Conrad included this scene to show how pointless everything is. Marlow experienced horrible things to discover a truth about the European colonial regime and about human existence, but he can do little to spread these truths because everyone he meets is too tangled in the lies to care.
5. Marlow is described as a "meditating Buddha" (77) indicating that he is perceived by the narrator as enlightened. The narrator views Britain as "the heart of an immense darkness" (77) by the end of the story, so we get some closure in the sense that someone finally listened to Marlow's experiences and took them to heart. The Director's comment, "We have lost the first of the ebb," could demonstrate a lack of understanding of Marlow's story in that the Director wants to return to the mundane for an escape from the contemplation of colonialism and absurdity. The line could also be symbolic. The ebb...of what? Of colonialism? Of Western civization?
1. I think that Brando plays Kurtz perfectly in Apocalypse Now. I think that Brando fits the account of Kurtz in the Heart of Darkness as well. Brando’s height is what makes him good to be the Heart of Darkness Kurtz, no matter what his weight is.
ReplyDelete2. The Intended is a very traditional “woman” in the late 1800s. She is devoted to Kurtz much more than the Woman. The Intended says that she will mourn Kurtz forever, unlike the Woman who is devoted to Kurtz, but she can hold her own against him.
3. I think that when Kurtz says this he realizes that he never figured out what his purpose was on earth. He got all of this ivory, killed people, yet still nothing changed. He also couldn’t find out what the meaning of the world was. He can’t figure out why he was put on the earth and what the point is of living.
4. Marlow lies to the Intended to protect her from what Kurtz had become. He want to let her remember him for all the good he did and was and not for the bad. Marlow see this as only a small white lie that isn’t going t hurt anyone. I think he realizes that if he told her the truth she wouldn’t be able to handle it. She cared too much for Kurtz and she would only be hurt by hearing the truth.
5. I think it concludes the story very well. I find it very interesting that Marlow is sitting by himself, he is separate from the rest of the people on the boat. The first sentence of the paragraph says, “Marlow ceased, and sat apart, indistinct and silent, in the pose of a meditating Buddha.” showing that Marlow is of a higher power. Marlow is now the reincarnation of Kurtz.